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mikec

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Reply with quote  #61 
DC - maybe you can outlaw suicide, since 2/3's of all gun deaths are suicide.

Oh wait - liberal states actually enable it, but through more peaceable, doctor assisted methods.  I suppose it's OK to have a doc stick a needle in your arm, as opposed to swallowing a gun barrel.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #62 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Each and every idea presented, which may help limit the number of these tragic events or reduce the carnage when a tragic event does take place, will have a large opposition prepared to call it a horrible idea.  That's a given.  However, having voices of disagreement come out in droves doesn't come anywhere close to meaning the idea is necessarily a bad one.

Not true.  Gun owners have routinely shown they support common sense law that removes illegal guns from our streets.  Even in cases where it impacts that legal gun owners. 

What they typically reject is laws proposed based on emotion, that at their face will have little impact on illegal guns, while only attacking legal guns.  For those laws you will see resistance.

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CoachB25

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Reply with quote  #63 
I don't know any gun owner that is opposed to having tough laws against things like that stock that enables an semi-automatic weapon to become an automatic weapon.  I don't know any gun owner that supports any type of illegal modifications to firearms.  I don't know any anti gun person who can't see the logic of an armed citizenship who uses guns for protection.  For them, the death of an innocent family or person is a political opportunity to push their agenda.  They don't even wait for any facts to come out.

Again, I had a bad man threaten my family.  In no uncertain terms, he would have regretted any move toward my family.  Law enforcement stepped in, made an arrest and locked him away.  He will get out.  He will regret showing his face in my presence.  

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Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #64 
Talk radio is going bonkers telling their audience the Left thinks we can stop all mass shootings.  Of course that's impossible and it's hard to understand why anyone would make such a ridiculous statement on the air.

Is there anything we can do to stop a mass shooter?  Certainly there is and, after coming up with some agreed upon solutions, we may still never know when we succeeded to actually stop one.  Similarly, we'll never stop all terrorist attacks in this Country but it's a good thing the Federal Government believes they can take steps to stop some.  Imagine if their attitude was "if you can't figure out how to stop all terrorist attacks, then let's not do anything at all".  That wouldn't be a good approach.

PS:  If any objection to modification of a firearm is non-existent, as some suggest, Sen Feinstein's bill making bump stocks illegal should fly through Congress.  Why don't I think so?

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Fresh

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Reply with quote  #65 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec


OK, that answers a few things.  I know you had said before you owned a handgun.  If you had a carry license, some of the answers I gave might be more understandable, as some of those things are related to your ability to obtain and maintain a license.


Never had any reason to obtain a license.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #66 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


Never had any reason to obtain a license.


I wasn't inferring anything either way, other than that process might've answered a few of your other questions.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #67 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Talk radio is going bonkers telling their audience the Left thinks we can stop all mass shootings.  Of course that's impossible and it's hard to understand why anyone would make such a ridiculous statement on the air.

Is there anything we can do to stop a mass shooter?  Certainly there is and, after coming up with some agreed upon solutions, we may still never know when we succeeded to actually stop one.  Similarly, we'll never stop all terrorist attacks in this Country but it's a good thing the Federal Government believes they can take steps to stop some.  Imagine if their attitude was "if you can't figure out how to stop all terrorist attacks, then let's not do anything at all".  That wouldn't be a good approach.

PS:  If any objection to modification of a firearm is non-existent, as some suggest, Sen Feinstein's bill making bump stocks illegal should fly through Congress.  Why don't I think so?


First, who listens to talk radio, besides you maybe?

Second - name some remedies, and we can debate them.

Third - did you miss the CNN Opinion piece that says America has accepted the rage of white men, or WTTE.  How could anyone publish such stuff, said no liberal ever.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #68 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachB25

Again, I had a bad man threaten my family.  In no uncertain terms, he would have regretted any move toward my family.  Law enforcement stepped in, made an arrest and locked him away.  He will get out.  He will regret showing his face in my presence.  


Sorry Coach, and understood.  Hope I never have to face a similar circumstance.

When I saw something similar, I was in college, and I had the "nothing to lose" youth mentality.  I would view it much differently now.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #69 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Talk radio is going bonkers telling their audience the Left thinks we can stop all mass shootings.  Of course that's impossible and it's hard to understand why anyone would make such a ridiculous statement on the air.

Is there anything we can do to stop a mass shooter?  Certainly there is and, after coming up with some agreed upon solutions, we may still never know when we succeeded to actually stop one.  Similarly, we'll never stop all terrorist attacks in this Country but it's a good thing the Federal Government believes they can take steps to stop some.  Imagine if their attitude was "if you can't figure out how to stop all terrorist attacks, then let's not do anything at all".  That wouldn't be a good approach.

PS:  If any objection to modification of a firearm is non-existent, as some suggest, Sen Feinstein's bill making bump stocks illegal should fly through Congress.  Why don't I think so?

Her bill had tons of silliness in it, if I am recalling correctly.  Just eliminating GAT cranks and bump stocks would pass no worries.  

Excessive magazine size restrictions like CA regs will not fly.  If limit is like 8 rounds or so, it will pass.  If it is like 2, no go.  Look at existing equipment and be reasonable. 

Excessive magazine key restrictions like in CA regs will not fly either. 

Even though both magazine size and magazine key are wicked simple to get around. 

Left has the same problem the right as on abortion.  They can't help but only accept the whole enchilada.  Keeps common sense from happening. 

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Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #70 
The bill:

https://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/a/7/a7493ca2-0cd7-416a-8d1f-929d89e71572/0141802AFBB99AC5EA299D5B71B98A52.automatic-gunfire-prevention-act.pdf

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A gullible nation is a vulnerable nation.  Challenge what you read on the internet.  Our nation's security is in our hands.  Don't be duped by misinformation.

The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #71 

Post Vegas, I have no problem with the substance of that bill. 

Pre Vegas, I might have thought it looked silly.  "Who would possibly use one of those shaky ask bump stocks or GAT cranks to shoot at anything besides a hillside?"

I suspect that bill needs to be cleaned up a lot, the 1986 firearms act has lots of areas that touch on these matters.  Probably should make sure this connects with existing laws as best as possible. 

I would like to give this a month or 2 to see if we have any extenuating motives that might be easier to mitigate.  I would still think everyone was ok with this and we should do it.   But knee jerking this very second is always a bad answer. 

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
mikec

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Reply with quote  #72 
8 rounds?  My compact pistol holds 12 in a double stock mag.  That has a lot to with why I bought that gun.  It's heavy for a compact, but still.

8 rounds won't fly.

Btw - I found out tonight that bump stocks were approved by ATF (under DOJ) in 2010.  Who was POTUS then?
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #73 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

  But knee jerking this very second is always a bad answer. 


That's what dewy does after EVERY shooting starting with Sandy Hook.  He's on record.  Laws were broken each and every time the shooter was found.  Laws already on the books

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
woody

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Reply with quote  #74 
I never asked the permission from state local or federal government agencies to protect myself or my family from harm. I took that burden upon myself and taught my family how to defend themselves.

Case in point. No official version of the shooting has been released but let’s just go with what has currently been released. Evil man premeditatedly sets himself up and shoots up a concert venue. Security guard at the hotel attempts to intervene and is shot and phones in the exact location and room number of the shooter. Gunman kills himself thinking it was all over. Security at the concert venue radio in the location of the shooter Swat team arrives almost an hour later and finds a dead man. What did the swat team do to stop the shooting? The person that stopped the shooting was an employee of the hotel that intervened. The Local government is not prepared to stop
an active shooter in the act in most cases. They are usually first responders that must take valuable time to coordinate before acting. The police defend when they can, but are usually just on scene after the fact to write up reports and explain in reports what occurred. They do their job, but can’t be held responsible for your individual safety. That much is true.

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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

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Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #75 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

Post Vegas, I have no problem with the substance of that bill. 

Pre Vegas, I might have thought it looked silly.  "Who would possibly use one of those shaky ask bump stocks or GAT cranks to shoot at anything besides a hillside?"

I suspect that bill needs to be cleaned up a lot, the 1986 firearms act has lots of areas that touch on these matters.  Probably should make sure this connects with existing laws as best as possible. 

I would like to give this a month or 2 to see if we have any extenuating motives that might be easier to mitigate.  I would still think everyone was ok with this and we should do it.   But knee jerking this very second is always a bad answer. 



What doesn't add up for me:


I have heard different distances, from 700-1200yds, 5.56 is not a good long range round. At 700yds the bullet would drop over 200 inches depending on load, that is in the neighborhood of 15ft. How did his first rounds not land in the street?

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keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #76 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

Her bill had tons of silliness in it, if I am recalling correctly.  Just eliminating GAT cranks and bump stocks would pass no worries.  

Excessive magazine size restrictions like CA regs will not fly.  If limit is like 8 rounds or so, it will pass.  If it is like 2, no go.  Look at existing equipment and be reasonable. 

Excessive magazine key restrictions like in CA regs will not fly either. 

Even though both magazine size and magazine key are wicked simple to get around. 

Left has the same problem the right as on abortion.  They can't help but only accept the whole enchilada.  Keeps common sense from happening. 


dewy has always wanted a 'win' in the gun debate, anyway he could get it.  He was never specific in his remedies but he wanted Feinstein to handle it because he "trusts his elected officials to take the necessary steps".  2 days ago he didn't know what a bump stock was and today it seems to be high on his Christmas wish list

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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #77 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec
8 rounds?  My compact pistol holds 12 in a double stock mag.  That has a lot to with why I bought that gun.  It's heavy for a compact, but still.

8 rounds won't fly.

Btw - I found out tonight that bump stocks were approved by ATF (under DOJ) in 2010.  Who was POTUS then?

8/10/12/15 something in that order.  Looked it up CA was 10. 

If the left was really smart they could back in some nice 'gets' on their side.  They could say:
"Hey, here is what we propose.  We call anything over 15 rounds, high capacity.  The buy a high capacity clip.  You can still buy and sell high capacity clips but they need a fed serial number and you can only buy and sell through background search at a registered dealer.  You can keep your existing high capacity clips for 10 years, at the end of 10 years you gotta bring them in to licensed dealer and get the fed serial number put on them. "




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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #78 
Take something similar to the Vegas scenario. Shooting starts in the crowd. Police arrive with the shooter, Woody and 12 other citizens with guns drawn, stalking each other. Since the actual shooter was a white guy in normal clothes, how do you decide who the bad guy was/is? If they wait, the police would be at risk. Do you assume everybody with a gun is a threat?
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #79 
Just bought a CZ-75 SP01 today. All the online stuff touted the 2 18+1 magazines supplied. '
But oh no. Here in CA it's 10. Thanks for saving the world Dems

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #80 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost_1
What doesn't add up for me: I have heard different distances, from 700-1200yds, 5.56 is not a good long range round. At 700yds the bullet would drop over 200 inches depending on load, that is in the neighborhood of 15ft. How did his first rounds not land in the street?

1050 feet to the nearest point near the stage, and 1360 to the farther side of the venue.   See picture taken from latimes article below. But he was shooting at a box that was 4 or 5 football fields in area, completely filled shoulder to shoulder with people.  So he did not have to be accurate in any degree.  Also he would have really been fighting that bump stock and still keep rounds in the target zone. 

At least one of the guns had a tripod and that would have certainly helped.  I have seen quick change tripods, so he may have been able to reuse that. 

Another factor is heat on the barrel.  Barrel gets so hot, it opens up and the grooves no longer grab the bullet.  Those rounds are falling short to the ground.  So having enough knowledge/training to know when to switch weapons, would have been part of the challenge he faced.

I suspect if you just aim at the far corner of the venue, the Giles St. side, your bullet is going to drop into that box somewhere.   I think that given the stress of the situation, dealing with that bullet drop, dealing with the fact that at that distance 2 fingers at arms length and your shot misses the crowd, dealing with that bump stock, and dealing with the barrel heat.  yeah, I think this guy had to spend a decent amount of time training for this attack.   Probably not years and years, but also not a day or 2 at the range.  



[tHtJfK2] 

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #81 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Take something similar to the Vegas scenario. Shooting starts in the crowd. Police arrive with the shooter, Woody and 12 other citizens with guns drawn, stalking each other. Since the actual shooter was a white guy in normal clothes, how do you decide who the bad guy was/is? If they wait, the police would be at risk. Do you assume everybody with a gun is a threat?

Pretty easy to identify someone shooting at you vs someone walking around with a gun looking for someone shooting at them.  Happens all the time.  That is why it is fairly rare in combat for one member of a team to shot another.  Same with 2 cops walking around with guns.   

Same with a street full of gang members shooting at each other.  Even these ultra sloppy shooters rarely shoot a friendly gang member.  It is even rare that innocent bystanders are shot.   Especially considering the number of rounds these guys can fire without even looking down the barrel let alone aiming. 

Your imaginary scenarios are so far fetched they are laughable.  Well trained legally owned citizen could easily provide a great defensive asset in any active shooter situation.  If they have only done the beginning level of training they know very well how to identify their target and how to clear the area behind the target. 

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #82 
Quote:
Originally Posted by keepinitreal


dewy has always wanted a 'win' in the gun debate, anyway he could get it.  He was never specific in his remedies but he wanted Feinstein to handle it because he "trusts his elected officials to take the necessary steps".  2 days ago he didn't know what a bump stock was and today it seems to be high on his Christmas wish list

Well he can have bump stocks and GAT cranks.  They were dumb as frick anyway.  No one serious considers them anything more than a novelty. 

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
EarlyGrayce

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Reply with quote  #83 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
Just bought a CZ-75 SP01 today. All the online stuff touted the 2 18+1 magazines supplied. ' But oh no. Here in CA it's 10. Thanks for saving the world Dems


The reviews on that CZ are saying that its the schnizzle. I want one.

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pabar61

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Reply with quote  #84 
Turns out that bump stocks were approved by ATF during the Obama Administration.

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/susan-jones/bump-stock-device-received-atf-green-light-during-obama-administration

woody

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Reply with quote  #85 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Take something similar to the Vegas scenario. Shooting starts in the crowd. Police arrive with the shooter, Woody and 12 other citizens with guns drawn, stalking each other. Since the actual shooter was a white guy in normal clothes, how do you decide who the bad guy was/is? If they wait, the police would be at risk. Do you assume everybody with a gun is a threat?


You are a F'ing idiot. You are irrational. and have never been in a life or death situation. You live in an imaginary world of good and kind individuals. You have never had a pistol stuck in our face, never had to get down and dirty, and fend off an attack with a gun or a knife. You are a compliant victim in the making. F off puss. You are a victim in the making. Go walk your poodle you piss ant, and hope that somebody like me is in the vicinity when you start wailing. You are the doomed.

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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #86 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Take something similar to the Vegas scenario. Shooting starts in the crowd. Police arrive with the shooter, Woody and 12 other citizens with guns drawn, stalking each other. Since the actual shooter was a white guy in normal clothes, how do you decide who the bad guy was/is? If they wait, the police would be at risk. Do you assume everybody with a gun is a threat?


More nonsense from uniformed libs. The same uniformed that "know what's best" and pass laws to regulate things based on feelings

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pabar61

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Reply with quote  #87 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody


You are a F'ing idiot. You are irrational. and have never been in a life or death situation. You live in an imaginary world of good and kind individuals. You have never had a pistol stuck in our face, never had to get down and dirty, and fend off an attack with a gun or a knife. You are a compliant victim in the making. F off puss. You are a victim in the making. Go walk your poodle you piss ant, and hope that somebody like me is in the vicinity when you start wailing. You are the doomed.


Classic Deweyness from Fresh.  Make up a scenario that has never happened and likely will never happen and put out there as some sort of gotcha question.  One of the weakest debating tactics I've ever seen.  It's no wonder Dewey had to run and hide and Fresh is soon to follow him.
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #88 
Who mentioned the use of a .308 earlier?  That's been my new rifle of choice, I wanted a rifle with a interchangable NATO spec. so I always would have ammo.  Shot 6mm as a teenager, shot 30-30, shot 30.06.   A .308 vs. a 5.56 is a great difference in comparison as you guys already know.  The audio I heard from the uber? driver was at least 2 distinct weapons and [it sounded to me] 2 very distinct locations.  I also saw gunfire flashes from 2 locations.  Definitely hear the 5.56 firing.  If you haven't listened to the youtube link provided by woody, go listen to it before it is removed.  

Bullet drop of a .308 is a minimum of 50 inches at 500 yards

Does anyone feel  morbid at times speaking of the details of these shootings?  We must have the conversation right?  They come out with misinformation immediately and it must be rebuffed.  Such as Fresh's idea that all white Americans look and act alike.  This is one of the most naive quotes ever here

" Since the actual shooter was a white guy in normal clothes, how do you decide who the bad guy was/is? " 

A person who asks that question or doesn't know who the bad guy was/is, shouldn't carry a gun in public or damn sure shouldn't shoot if they are carrying. 



 I'm sure glad that dewilly, and Fresh, DC and bamaturd don't carry weapons.  That's a group you don't want to have guns or else maybe Fresh and bamaturd would be the next couple of psychos shooting from a high rise hotel.  They seem the type who would shoot at a group of white people because of their white guilt like this guy did





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"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
woody

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Reply with quote  #89 
Those guys are ass clowns, and wouldn't know what end of the tube the round comes out of.
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Rats flee from the sinking vessel. They traverse nimbly upon a rope, safely cleated to the dock, that is private enterprise. Socialism is dead, and tits up in the water. A bloated, death show, for rubberneckers of all classes to view.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #90 
Before replies about the .308 being interchangable

"This time the civilian load is the hotter one. Combined with thinner brass, it's not safe to shoot in the larger, looser, 7.62 chamber. But you can shoot 7.62 in .308 chambered guns, which is why they're almost always .308chambered."

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
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