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woody

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Reply with quote  #31 
How would the threat of an increased prison sentence stop a madman? Heck Democrats scream about mandatory sentencing for gun crimes, then demand more gun control, and stiffer penalties for gun law violation. What is it that Liberal Democrats want? Thugs roaming the streets with guns without fear of imprisonment, while law abiding citizens are prevented from owning guns? Hey, sounds like almost every Dem controlled Urban area.
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mikec

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Reply with quote  #32 
We've had this discussion before.  Until those screaming the loudest for "gun control" learn something about guns, it's entirely impossible to talk about.

A certain poster here would cry about this and that needs to be illegal, and we would say it already is.  Then, he would say, well something else has to be done then.

It's pointless.
PDad

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Reply with quote  #33 
Some recommended reading for Fresh - http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/12/10/marco-rubios-claim-that-no-recent-mass-shootings-would-have-been-prevented-by-gun-laws/

Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #34 
http://nationalpost.com/opinion/leah-libresco-i-thought-gun-control-was-the-answer-then-my-research-told-me-otherwise
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“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


Fresh

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Reply with quote  #35 
Ban assault type, automatic weapons for the populace. Strict penalties for ownership.
Ban kits that adapt semi-automatic for automatic fire. All kits currently in use would be bought back.
Set a limit on type and number of guns, not part of a collection. Collection should be controlled in some manner.
License gun ownership, with ballistics tests run on every weapon.
Purchase of ammunition should be part of the licensing and set a point where further purchases allow search warrants to be issued to check status of purchaser. Ie, search the premises for unregistered guns.
Ownership of a modified gun which could fire as an automatic would be a felony.
Mental health issues may cancel license.
Conviction of a violent crime results in cancellation of license. Must enter application process upon completion of sentence.

Might be more, these are off the top of my head.

Fresh

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Reply with quote  #36 
I'm not wanting to take any sane, reasonable gun owner's guns. Just set reasonable limits to ownership of guns and ammo. You can't own just anything in our society because you love it. There are limits to owning wild animals(pit bulls for instance). What type of guns and the quantity of ammo should be the trigger that puts someone on the radar. Just because it doesn't stop them all doesn't mean it has no value. Given the potential for excess violence, how many guns is a reasonable amount? 1 is good for me, how many do you need?
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #37 
Credit to you for at least naming some measures unlike the idiot Jimmy Kimmel.  I believe some of what you listed is already illegal like automatic weapons.
woody

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Reply with quote  #38 
Full auto weapons are heavily regulated and difficult to own. It is already illegal to convert a semi to full auto. Bump fire kits are junk, and anyone that shoots a semi automatic and knows what they are doing can duplicate what a bump fire does.
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woody

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Reply with quote  #39 
In regards to the rest of your comments/proposals, which one would prevent a madman, or a thug from obtaining any weapon they want?
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Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
I'm not wanting to take any sane, reasonable gun owner's guns. Just set reasonable limits to ownership of guns and ammo. You can't own just anything in our society because you love it. There are limits to owning wild animals(pit bulls for instance). What type of guns and the quantity of ammo should be the trigger that puts someone on the radar. Just because it doesn't stop them all doesn't mean it has no value. Given the potential for excess violence, how many guns is a reasonable amount? 1 is good for me, how many do you need?



Great another "I don't know anything about guns" wanting to force his views on others.


Lets see, I own 4 different shotguns, 3 different hunting rifles, a few .22 plinking rifles, 3 different muzzle loaders,and a few handguns.

If my house was not broken into a few years back and the stole the guns that had belonged to my grandfather and father, both have passed, I would have 7 more guns that had not been shot in years.

I guess that makes me a gun nut.....

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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


Fresh

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Reply with quote  #41 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost_1



Great another "I don't know anything about guns" wanting to force his views on others.


Lets see, I own 4 different shotguns, 3 different hunting rifles, a few .22 plinking rifles, 3 different muzzle loaders,and a few handguns.

If my house was not broken into a few years back and the stole the guns that had belonged to my grandfather and father, both have passed, I would have 7 more guns that had not been shot in years.

I guess that makes me a gun nut.....


Well, it does make you one of the people that supply thieves and murderers with guns. I need to add storage requirements for gun ownership.
woody

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Reply with quote  #42 
California has strict gun storage laws, yet stolen and illegal guns are everywhere in that state.
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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

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mikec

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Reply with quote  #43 
Read below.  This is what I mean.  Folks get all emotional, propose a bunch of stuff (outside of registration/confiscation) that is already on the books.  Then, they get frustrated, and figure "something" must be done.

I would ask you this:  what are you trying to stop - a mass killing like LV, or street crime, like Chicago (which kills 10 times as many people annually). 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh

Ban assault type, automatic weapons for the populace. Strict penalties for ownership.  already illegal, without substantial hoops, time, and money.  Weapons costs $20k up, even if you can get them.  Must be registered with ATF, and permission is needed to transport them.  Local law enforcement notified when someone in their area has a permit.


Ban kits that adapt semi-automatic for automatic fire. All kits currently in use would be bought back.
Already illegal, except bump stocks, which are rapid fire, but not auto.  I suspect these will soon be illegal.  If you self modify, you must register it as a machine gun, and same restrictions apply as above.


Set a limit on type and number of guns, not part of a collection. Collection should be controlled in some manner.  Who sets limits?  Owning a number of weapons doesn't mean you're crazy.  Arbitrary limits are just that.


License gun ownership, with ballistics tests run on every weapon. Not gonna happen, except that every transaction is recorded, and the firearms dealers must keep those records for a long time - 10 yrs I think.  They are subject to unannounced audit at any time.  Not sure what "ballistics" do.


Purchase of ammunition should be part of the licensing and set a point where further purchases allow search warrants to be issued to check status of purchaser. Ie, search the premises for unregistered guns.  Why is buying ammo a problem?  Some folks like to shoot a lot.  Some people buy against inflation.  Again - what is the "appropriate" number?  Who decides?  It's arbitrary.  What sounds like a lot to you is not.  You can shoot 500 rounds out of a handgun in an hour range session pretty easily.  If some place has 9mm ammo on sale at a great price, I might buy 3,000 rounds for the next several session.  You probably think no one should own 3,000 rounds.


Ownership of a modified gun which could fire as an automatic would be a felony.  Is already


Mental health issues may cancel license.  already law


Conviction of a violent crime results in cancellation of license. Must enter application process upon completion of sentence.  already law

Might be more, these are off the top of my head.

mikec

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Reply with quote  #44 
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody
California has strict gun storage laws, yet stolen and illegal guns are everywhere in that state.


probably mostly stolen from vehicles.
woody

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Reply with quote  #45 
Keep plugging away Fresh, or maybe do some research on existing gun laws, and firearms in general. Or just cry for more laws that have no effect other than prevent law abiding citizens from owning firearms. Hey I can now legally carry a sword and a switchblade in Texas. I haven't seen anyone listing the latest upturn in sword attacks..
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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
woody

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Reply with quote  #46 
Keep plugging away Fresh, or maybe do some research on existing gun laws, and firearms in general. Or just cry for more laws that have no effect other than prevent law abiding citizens from owning firearms. Hey I can now legally carry a sword and a switchblade in Texas. I haven't seen anyone listing the latest upturn in sword attacks..
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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
mikec

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Reply with quote  #47 
Honestly, I would say ask away Fresh, because much of the stuff that gun control people want is already illegal.

Fresh - do you have a Georgia Weapons Carry License?
PDad

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Reply with quote  #48 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Purchase of ammunition should be part of the licensing and set a point where further purchases allow search warrants to be issued to check status of purchaser. Ie, search the premises for unregistered guns.

Sounds like profiling to me...

IMO you'd need to pass a law limiting the amount of ammo that could be owned/possessed to use large ammo purchases as probable cause for a search warrant. 
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #49 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad

Sounds like profiling to me...

IMO you'd need to pass a law limiting the amount of ammo that could be owned/possessed to use large ammo purchases as probable cause for a search warrant. 


Good idea. Add that to the list.
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #50 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec
Honestly, I would say ask away Fresh, because much of the stuff that gun control people want is already illegal.

Fresh - do you have a Georgia Weapons Carry License?


Don't carry a weapon.
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #51 
Each and every idea presented, which may help limit the number of these tragic events or reduce the carnage when a tragic event does take place, will have a large opposition prepared to call it a horrible idea.  That's a given.  However, having voices of disagreement come out in droves doesn't come anywhere close to meaning the idea is necessarily a bad one.
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End of FY 2001, which was Pres Clinton last year, debt was $5.8T.
See next link.

End of FY 2009, which is last year applicable to Pres Bush, debt was $11.9T or more than doubled.
See here - https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

Eight years under Obama deficits total about $7T.
See here - https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit

Understand debt goes up higher than total deficits.
Explained here - https://www.forbes.com/sites/stancollender/2014/11/04/there-is-no-budget-conspiracy-why-federal-debt-increases-by-more-than-the-deficit/



mikec

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Reply with quote  #52 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Each and every idea presented, which may help limit the number of these tragic events or reduce the carnage when a tragic event does take place, will have a large opposition prepared to call it a horrible idea.  That's a given.  However, having voices of disagreement come out in droves doesn't come anywhere close to meaning the idea is necessarily a bad one.


We've had this discussion with you before.

Why don't you read my response to Fresh's list.  As pabar said, at least he put some ideas out there as a starting point.

mikec

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Reply with quote  #53 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


Don't carry a weapon.


OK, that answers a few things.  I know you had said before you owned a handgun.  If you had a carry license, some of the answers I gave might be more understandable, as some of those things are related to your ability to obtain and maintain a license.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #54 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
Each and every idea presented, which may help limit the number of these tragic events or reduce the carnage when a tragic event does take place, will have a large opposition prepared to call it a horrible idea.  That's a given.  However, having voices of disagreement come out in droves doesn't come anywhere close to meaning the idea is necessarily a bad one.


Re-post this in the abortion thread.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #55 
Here's an article that dewey may want to read that will clear up some of his misconceptions.  It's a few years old, but still covers it pretty well:

http://freebeacon.com/politics/all-the-things-hillary-clinton-got-wrong-in-her-gun-speech/
DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #56 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost_1

Great another "I don't know anything about guns" wanting to force his views on others.


Great another "I'm one of only 30% of Americans that own a gun" wanting to force his views on others.

But now's not the time to talk about gun control, even though the majority of Americans favor background checks for gun show and personal sales, blocking sales to mentally ill persons or those on no-fly or watch lists, and banning assault-style weapons.

Why was Congress going to consider easing sales of silencers and armor-piercing bullets?  If you really need a gun for personal protection, do you really need hollow point bullets, bump stocks or semi-automatic military-style weapons?  Applies to hunting as well.  The 2nd Amendment never anticipated any such weapons and only addressed a "well regulated militia" to defend our country against enemies (which our military now does), not ownership by citizens so they could go on killing sprees.

But now is not the time to talk about it.  When planes were hijacked, did we not take immediate action to fortify the cockpits, require metal detectors and other security checks?  When one guy - ONE GUY - tried to set his shoe on fire, did we not immediately require all passengers to take off their shoes when going through security?  We can no longer be reactive.  We need to be proactive.  And we need to stop letting the NRA control our Congressmen.

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Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #57 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DietCoke


Great another "I'm one of only 30% of Americans that own a gun" wanting to force his views on others.

But now's not the time to talk about gun control, even though the majority of Americans favor background checks for gun show and personal sales, blocking sales to mentally ill persons or those on no-fly or watch lists, and banning assault-style weapons.

Why was Congress going to consider easing sales of silencers and armor-piercing bullets?  If you really need a gun for personal protection, do you really need hollow point bullets, bump stocks or semi-automatic military-style weapons?  Applies to hunting as well.  The 2nd Amendment never anticipated any such weapons and only addressed a "well regulated militia" to defend our country against enemies (which our military now does), not ownership by citizens so they could go on killing sprees.

But now is not the time to talk about it.  When planes were hijacked, did we not take immediate action to fortify the cockpits, require metal detectors and other security checks?  When one guy - ONE GUY - tried to set his shoe on fire, did we not immediately require all passengers to take off their shoes when going through security?  We can no longer be reactive.  We need to be proactive.  And we need to stop letting the NRA control our Congressmen.



You are way better DC, come back when you do some research. We had the difference of hollow point and armor piercing conversation with the multiple handled moderator way back. The proposal didn't legalize armor piercing ammo, it set guidelines after the ATF under Obama tried to reclassify green-tip 5.56 ammo as armor piercing, it is not. 

__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #58 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Ban assault type, automatic weapons for the populace. Strict penalties for ownership.
Assault type weapons have been banned since 1986.  
Ban kits that adapt semi-automatic for automatic fire. All kits currently in use would be bought back.
Agree with mikec bump stocks and GAT cranks likely will be banned with this shooting.  Trigger modifications using strings with springs or rubber bands are already illegal.   Problem is that rate of fire can be accomplished with little no modification to the gun, just trigger technique and practice. 
Set a limit on type and number of guns, not part of a collection. Collection should be controlled in some manner.
Collectors are far ranging and varying.  If you cover existing 'collectors' this will not do anything.  Going to be hard to lock it down in a way that allows responsible legal gun collector but outs non-responsible gun collectors.  Plus gun collector today, can be unstable tomorrow.  Up until Sunday night Stephen Paddock was a collector. 
License gun ownership, with ballistics tests run on every weapon.
National Ballistic Information Network (NBIN) has been running for many years.  It has many many 100's of thousands of guns that are actively used in crimes over an over.  If you look outside the vegas shooting, the vast majority of gun crime is drug and or gang related where guns are shared, passed around and reused. 

Some cities have extremely effective NBIN efforts, Kansas City, for example, while others don't use NBIN barely at all, Chicago and DC.  The common theme is tough on crime, as in send people to jail, administrations vs not as oriented towards jail administrations.  KC has has 4 mayors in a row that were very tough on crime mayors.  Sly James, current mayor, in 2011 was inspecting a property at the request of the property owner.  The tour was to investigate if a curfew at the property made sense, was plausible.  At 11:30pm gunfire broke out and 3 kids were shot.  The curfew went into effect in a in certain downtown KC areas, and has been very effective.

Right now the NBIN effort is already basically overwhelmed with the amount of information it is producing.  It is not possible to track ballistics on the top 20% of guns actively being used in murders, let alone all the guns in the US.  You would need a technology like microstamping.  California requires microstamping.  NRA currently does not like microstamping, but most gun owners will likely tolerate this technology if it helps remove illegal guns off the streets. 


Purchase of ammunition should be part of the licensing and set a point where further purchases allow search warrants to be issued to check status of purchaser. Ie, search the premises for unregistered guns.
Real gun guys already make their own ammo.  Not going to control much there.  Reloaders can also give you a ready supply of available ammo, which is impossible to track from government. 
Ownership of a modified gun which could fire as an automatic would be a felony.
Already is.
Mental health issues may cancel license.
Agree.  Already kind of is.  Poorly implemented poorly enforced.  Removing someones rights, right to vote, right to an abortion, right to carry a gun, is always going to be a sticky issue.  Currently this requires court action.  While court action in the 60's 70's was pretty easy, and was mostly used by family members by other family members.  Libs saw this as more capable family members using these orders as ways to control/punish less capable family members, family members that had gotten heavily into drug use, or were having mental stability issue.  Which begs the question, do you consider excessive drug use a mental health issue that should cancel your right to carry a firearm?  I do. 
Conviction of a violent crime results in cancellation of license. Must enter application process upon completion of sentence.
Currently you get convicted of a felon you lose your right to firearms and your right to vote.
Might be more, these are off the top of my head.


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Can always tell when fresh is drunk and tired. Gets low energy and says 'sh1t' a lot,
mikec

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Reply with quote  #59 
Why don't you learn something before you post?  At a minimum, look up a few posts.

Instead of spewing hate and falsehoods, try proposing something.  You never know - we might all actually agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DietCoke


Great another "I'm one of only 30% of Americans that own a gun" wanting to force his views on others. More like almost half, as if that matters at all.

But now's not the time to talk about gun control, even though the majority of Americans favor background checks for gun show and personal sales, blocking sales to mentally ill persons or those on no-fly or watch lists, and banning assault-style weapons.  please read the article I posted - these are all covered for you there. 

Why was Congress going to consider easing sales of silencers and armor-piercing bullets?  armor-piercing bullets?  Have not heard that, and it is highly doubtful.  Suppressors - not silencers.  If you really need a gun for personal protection, do you really need hollow point bullets, do you know what these are?  Would you rather stop an assailant?  In self defense situations, it's about ending the threat.  bump stocks or semi-automatic military-style weapons? almost every gun these days is semi-auto.  Please learn up.  As for "military style" - no idea what that means.  Do they all have to be painted pink or something? Applies to hunting as well.  The 2nd Amendment never anticipated any such weapons and only addressed a "well regulated militia" to defend our country against enemies (which our military now does), not ownership by citizens so they could go on killing sprees.  the point of personal ownership is not to go on killing sprees, but that point is lost on drama queens I guess.  As for militia, you, and many like you, only look at one phrase of the 2A, while there are several in there.

But now is not the time to talk about it.  When planes were hijacked, did we not take immediate action to fortify the cockpits, require metal detectors and other security checks?  When one guy - ONE GUY - tried to set his shoe on fire, did we not immediately require all passengers to take off their shoes when going through security?  We can no longer be reactive.  We need to be proactive.  And we need to stop letting the NRA control our Congressmen. you do realize that NRA is a small contributor to politicians as compared to many other special interest groups?  NRA doesn't "control" anyone - lib talking point
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #60 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
I'm not wanting to take any sane, reasonable gun owner's guns. Just set reasonable limits to ownership of guns and ammo. You can't own just anything in our society because you love it. There are limits to owning wild animals(pit bulls for instance). What type of guns and the quantity of ammo should be the trigger that puts someone on the radar. Just because it doesn't stop them all doesn't mean it has no value. Given the potential for excess violence, how many guns is a reasonable amount? 1 is good for me, how many do you need?

We are not saying that you are wanting to take sane reasonable gun owners guns.

We are saying that unless you are willing to dig in a little, understand what is a gun, what is an automatic weapon, what is a semi-automatic weapon, what is a single fire weapon, what the current state of the laws are, and what of those laws are effective, the conversation usually just devolves to going in circles. 

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Can always tell when fresh is drunk and tired. Gets low energy and says 'sh1t' a lot,
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