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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #121 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerpAlum



You should be glad a government bureaucrat did not make law where there was none.

But read the news, Freedom Caucus others involved in discussing bill to ban bump stocks. Notice most of the silence from the gun lobby--not much to say when that many get shot.

Conservative columnist today calls for repealing 2nd Amendment. Let's just have a real discussion and stop going around the edges with panaceas.

I see no conservative columnists calling for repeal of 2nd amendment. 

TerpAloser's post is exactly why little will be done.  NYT is calling for repeal of 2nd amendment as well.

Talking of repealing 2nd will put an end to any willingness to compromise.

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bluedog

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Reply with quote  #122 
Worried about a bump stock?

Terp, you should be more worried about bumping your head...........Surely, that's what happened to you..........Stay off those ladders..........

Now, we've had our discussion...........I think it went well..........
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #123 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
He was shot with 200 rounds and was still able to call the police? Thats superhuman


Shot at, shot at. From your quote.
PDad

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Reply with quote  #124 
Timeline from LVMP:

[15080086_G] 

Police didn't breach the room until an hour later because there was no longer an active shooter - it was handled as a barricade situation.
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #125 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec


Happened in midtown - across the street from my office - right after Trayvon Martin.  I heard the shots, and saw people flee the garage.

A guy was shot in the back of the head while pumping gas not too far from Fresh.  He got off at the wrong exit to get gas.  That was about 2 years ago.

Last June, down in Fresh's part of the world, and teen graduation party turned violent.  I think maybe 1 killed, and 7 or 8 shot.  That was all black on black.

Just about a week ago, a 19 year old at a club on the other side of town was shot and killed because he was wearing a blue shirt.

Unfortunately, lots of this crap around here.

Out my way, we only usually have to worry about bears (I saw one a few days ago) and now, mountain lions (spotted by folks a few miles away).  Oh, and a 10 pt buck yesterday that was snorting at my dogs when I took them out for a walk.  Wish I had my gun then.




Idiot KIR turns those isolated instances into white women being shot for being white. Quite a jump. I remember a little about the instances you refer to. Happens too frequently in our society. I'd like to be able to run ballistics on the bullets and trace them back to the owner. Might not do anything short term, but would eventually give us a starting point for tracing down the murderers. I'm also leaning towards a national data base on gun and ammunition purchases to see when somebody buys unusual quantities like Paddock did. 1 more enforcement tool. I know about these things, see some pretty sketchy people when I work down town, but never get confronted or hassled. 
Saw the news on the mountain lion....tried to explain it as a big house cat. Looked liony to me.
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #126 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad
Timeline from LVMP:


Police didn't breach the room until an hour later because there was no longer an active shooter - it was handled as a barricade situation.

I think it was handled as a potentially booby trapped room.  Standard barricade situation they probably don't wait an hour to breech. 

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #127 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


Idiot KIR turns those isolated instances into white women being shot for being white. Quite a jump. I remember a little about the instances you refer to. Happens too frequently in our society. I'd like to be able to run ballistics on the bullets and trace them back to the owner. Might not do anything short term, but would eventually give us a starting point for tracing down the murderers. I'm also leaning towards a national data base on gun and ammunition purchases to see when somebody buys unusual quantities like Paddock did. 1 more enforcement tool. I know about these things, see some pretty sketchy people when I work down town, but never get confronted or hassled. 
Saw the news on the mountain lion....tried to explain it as a big house cat. Looked liony to me.

Your ballistics database is not technically possible at this time.  We should use the ballistic database we have built, and apply it in Chicago, DC, New York, Jersey, Atlanta.  We do that you will greatly reduce gun crime in the US. 

Later after we have that success, we can build a broader database.

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PDad

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Reply with quote  #128 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
I think it was handled as a potentially booby trapped room.  Standard barricade situation they probably don't wait an hour to breech. 

Standard barricade situation goes on longer if there is any sign of life inside. I expect LE did some surveillance on suite before breaching room.

LE was constrained in tactics they could employ since it was 32nd floor of a high rise and they didn't want to risk starting a major explosion and/or fire.
pabar61

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Reply with quote  #129 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PDad

Standard barricade situation goes on longer if there is any sign of life inside. I expect LE did some surveillance on suite before breaching room.

LE was constrained in tactics they could employ since it was 32nd floor of a high rise and they didn't want to risk starting a major explosion and/or fire.


I'm never going to judge what the police do.  
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #130 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

Your ballistics database is not technically possible at this time. 


Why? It's an electronic entry. With enough money, all things are possible. Add the cost to the cost of a license and to the ammunition.
Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #131 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


Why? It's an electronic entry. With enough money, all things are possible. Add the cost to the cost of a license and to the ammunition.



Micro stamping a firing pin will result in a filed firing pin, or a machined replacement. I can change the barrel of my carry weapon in less then a minute. I can swap the barrel on my Savage long range rifle in less then an hour.




#idon'tknowanythingaboutgunsbut

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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


Fresh

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Reply with quote  #132 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost_1



Micro stamping a firing pin will result in a filed firing pin, or a machined replacement. I can change the barrel of my carry weapon in less then a minute. I can swap the barrel on my Savage long range rifle in less then an hour.


Not familiar with micro stamping, would it allow someone to trace the shell casing to a particular gun?

Is swapping the barrel possible on all guns? Some guns? A few guns? How did you get the replacement barrlel? Wouldn't it be possible to register and do a ballistics test on it as well? I'm wanting a way to trace a weapon to it's roots. Then work back to the incident. If we can fingerprint and catalogue every human being, surely we can trace guns. Maybe force the manufacturers to run the ballistics and add to the price of a gun. 

uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #133 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


Why? It's an electronic entry. With enough money, all things are possible. Add the cost to the cost of a license and to the ammunition.

Current electronic ballistic indexes are built around imaging technologies.  Much like a facial image database.  These are massive storage/machine hogs. 

Can you build it, sure, but there is little reason to.  Image databases often produce 50 or 100 possible matches, then an imaging expert has to go through and verify the matches, eventually weeding down to a single match.  This severely limits your ability to scale.

The small limited database we already have it is built on the above technology.  It already has overwhelmed it's ability to scale. 

The performance that database really depends on the jurisdiction.  Like KC, said we are going to aggressively pursue gun crimes.  6 years later they are at a point where they are back to tracking single murder weapons.  But to get there, they had to aggressively use that database for X/3/2 murder weapons, aggressively pursue those weapons owners, remove those owners to jail, and remove those guns from their system. 

You take a Chicago, DC, Atlanta.  Right now they are only putting guns in the system they believe to have been involved in more than one murder.  If you put more guns in, when you get a new image and ask have you seen this, it gives a much larger result set.  The expert has to go through everything in the resultset and actively include or remove each one.  It is not ordered by most likely match in way shape or form.    You staring putting in thousands and thousands of guns that resultset comes up on the 1000s really quick, no expert can go through that set.   So they limit the number of active guns they are tracking using that type of a system.  

It is not just about more computers or more people.   This is state of the art in image matching algorithms right now.  They inherently have a lot of slop in them. 

Besides you take a Chicago, DC, Atlanta right now these systems are producing so much data that the cops cannot even act on it, and keep up with their normal daily activities of like going to the scene of a murder.   The 'pickup because gun casing was found at x murder" list is pretty large for these guys.  

These guns are often passed from criminal to criminal.  gang member to gang member, cousin to cousin.  So when they get a hit from imaging database it is going to tell them that this gun was saw at murder x, at murder y.  The cop can pull those cases, look for similarities to their murder.  Use this as a part of the deductive investigation of the case.  Was it the same gang as those previous usages?  It can help scope people in or scope them out.  But he is still going to have to do the leg work to find the guy.  So he is always going to work the active case in front of him. 

Going to a scenario where you have microstamping is way hugely better, way more reliably, scales to to massive sizes.  The machine can do all the indexing.   You take an picture of a spent case, send it to a website and out pops the gun purchasers name. 



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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #134 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


Not familiar with micro stamping, would it allow someone to trace the shell casing to a particular gun?

Is swapping the barrel possible on all guns? Some guns? A few guns? How did you get the replacement barrlel? Wouldn't it be possible to register and do a ballistics test on it as well? I'm wanting a way to trace a weapon to it's roots. Then work back to the incident. If we can fingerprint and catalogue every human being, surely we can trace guns. Maybe force the manufacturers to run the ballistics and add to the price of a gun. 


microstamping puts a serial number on the hammer of the gun.  When it strikes the casing, it will leave that serial number on casing.

It is regulated, in California, like a serial number on the gun.  Can you file it off?  yes, gun is now illegal.  

Barrels also live striations on the bullet, that can help police rule or rule out a gun.  At an investigation you are solving 2 problems.   Locating information about potential perpetrators (searching for clues).   Ruling or ruling out evidence available to you.  Microstamping is much better at this searching for potential perps part of the problem.  Once you have a perp, and his gun, barrel marks can help rule in or rule out that weapon. 

You can swap barrels on most every gun.  Cheap resolvers often have components that cannot be changed.  No one is swapping barrels.  They are passing around often used guns.  In most crime communities they will hand a gun from A to B, and state how many bodies are already on a gun.   Loads of bodies on a gun, it's price drops a lot.  Those guns are usually stored in an abandoned location, and only retrieved when they plan on shooting someone.  They never use guns they have purchased legally, they have those guns but they are kept for self defense.  So they almost always purchase a gun with low body count, that was likely stolen.  That way if cops pick them up, they don't drip the ballistics database, and get pinned for those past murders.

You could ballistics every gun made, shell casing imprint and rifle striation, but quickly runs into the imaging scale problem. 

Fingerprints are specific images that have a repetitive pattern cause they are built from the same DNA process.  You are able to use that repetitive pattern to greatly simplify the pattern matching algorithm.  http://www.forensicsciencesimplified.org/prints/Fingerprints.pdf shows how they greatly simplify the pattern logging of a fingerprint, which then naturally greatly simplifies the pattern matching part. It makes it largely exact.  When you say, who is this fingerprint, you mostly get a single answer. 

Really all the systems you are talking about have little to do with stopping your vegas style shooter.  They are all much better at removing guns that are used for murder over and over and passed around a community multiple times.

BTW: most of these systems work when used along side a stop and frisk system.  Take microstamping for instance.  No stop and frisk type of a system in place, they just file the microstamps off.  If you have stop and frisk, when microstamp is filed off, you pick them up for illegal gun.  Doing one without the other, is a waste of time.



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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #135 
A natural follow up question would be: Could they build a repetitive pattern simplification technique like you have fingerprints.  They have been trying.  To date, it is not that great.  It is amazing the variation in process and tooling greatly alters the imprint the tool leaves on the gun barrel and hammer.   Not saying they cannot, but some super smart people have been trying to develop that for a very long time, and they have not been successful yet. 
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DietCoke

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Reply with quote  #136 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist

I see no conservative columnists calling for repeal of 2nd amendment. 

TerpAloser's post is exactly why little will be done.  NYT is calling for repeal of 2nd amendment as well.

Talking of repealing 2nd will put an end to any willingness to compromise.


I believe the "conservative columnist" calling for repeal is the NYT article you mention.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/opinion/guns-second-amendment-nra.html

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"The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists."

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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #137 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DietCoke


I believe the "conservative columnist" calling for repeal is the NYT article you mention.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/05/opinion/guns-second-amendment-nra.html

NYT -> conservative ----> NOPE!

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I'm more getting a sense that willie wynn is dewey is a F'n loser. 
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #138 
Quote:
Originally Posted by uwApoligist
A natural follow up question would be: Could they build a repetitive pattern simplification technique like you have fingerprints.  They have been trying.  To date, it is not that great.  It is amazing the variation in process and tooling greatly alters the imprint the tool leaves on the gun barrel and hammer.   Not saying they cannot, but some super smart people have been trying to develop that for a very long time, and they have not been successful yet. 


Thanks for taking the time for such a thorough explanation. Sounds like microstamping would be a logical first step. I can understand a flood of data being overwhelming for investigators on a caSE. I was hoping for a cross reference database for quick reference with a proven algorithm. Is there a way to strike a barrel to make it identifiable for cross reference? Something the manufacturer could do on new guns? 


uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #139 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


Thanks for taking the time for such a thorough explanation. Sounds like microstamping would be a logical first step. I can understand a flood of data being overwhelming for investigators on a caSE. I was hoping for a cross reference database for quick reference with a proven algorithm. Is there a way to strike a barrel to make it identifiable for cross reference? Something the manufacturer could do on new guns? 



Yes you could create a tool that helps uniquely mark a bullet that has gone through it.  A bit more complicated than the microstamp of the firing pin - casing.  It would have to be the whole length of the barrel.

Most of the times having the casing is going to be enough. 

Guys like woody swap barrels.  Real criminals for most gun crime do not know anything about guns.  They trade sloppy cheap stollen guns around. 



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Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #140 
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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


mikec

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Reply with quote  #141 
The midtown incident was a black Antropology major from U West Ga who wanted to start a race war after Trayvon Martin was killed.  That was what he said in court as he plead guilty.

He walked into a parking deck at 14th/Peachtree and shot the first two white people he saw - two women leaving for lunch.  One was killed, the other was paralyzed.  Both shot in the back, both because they were white.

We've talked about this incident here before, and I've provided links from local news.

That's the incident that KIR referred to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


Idiot KIR turns those isolated instances into white women being shot for being white. Quite a jump. I remember a little about the instances you refer to. Happens too frequently in our society. I'd like to be able to run ballistics on the bullets and trace them back to the owner. Might not do anything short term, but would eventually give us a starting point for tracing down the murderers. I'm also leaning towards a national data base on gun and ammunition purchases to see when somebody buys unusual quantities like Paddock did. 1 more enforcement tool. I know about these things, see some pretty sketchy people when I work down town, but never get confronted or hassled. 
Saw the news on the mountain lion....tried to explain it as a big house cat. Looked liony to me.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #142 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


Not familiar with micro stamping, would it allow someone to trace the shell casing to a particular gun?

Is swapping the barrel possible on all guns? Some guns? A few guns? How did you get the replacement barrlel? Wouldn't it be possible to register and do a ballistics test on it as well? I'm wanting a way to trace a weapon to it's roots. Then work back to the incident. If we can fingerprint and catalogue every human being, surely we can trace guns. Maybe force the manufacturers to run the ballistics and add to the price of a gun. 



Barrels are pretty easy to replace.  To clean your pistol, don't you take the barrel off?  Nothing to stop you from replacing it with a different one.

Criminals use stolen guns, so the above wouldn't be of much use.

I had a car that I sold one time.  Before the new owner cold register it, it was stolen, and used in a robbery.

The police showed up at my door around 5:30 am and wanted to talk to me about why my car was placed at a robbery about 80 miles away, and then was abandoned.  Luckily, I had info to prove it, so after an hour or so, they left.

Imagine that happening with every single shooting in Chicago.
Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #143 
The banning of certain weapons seems a far cry from "total gun control" but, as far as the native Indian example goes, give each Indian the arsenal the Vegas shooter had versus a power with fighter jets and drones, and the outcome is likely much the same, if not worse.
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The Right in here are quoting posts and changing words.  Please search for original post if accurate information is desired.




pabar61

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