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Fresh

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Cut and Paste:

THE REASONABLE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS

By Adam Winkler

Gun control is as much a part of the Second Amendment as the right to keep and bear arms. The text of the amendment, which refers to a “well regulated Militia,” suggests as much. As the Supreme Court correctly noted in District of Columbia v. Heller (2008), the militia of the founding era was the body of ordinary citizens capable of taking up arms to defend the nation. While the Founders sought to protect the citizenry from being disarmed entirely, they did not wish to prevent government from adopting reasonable regulations of guns and gun owners.

Although Americans today often think that gun control is a modern invention, the Founding era had laws regulating the armed citizenry. There were laws designed to ensure an effective militia, such as laws requiring armed citizens to appear at mandatory musters where their guns would be inspected. Governments also compiled registries of civilian-owned guns appropriate for militia service, sometimes conducting door-to-door surveys. The Founders had broad bans on gun possession by people deemed untrustworthy, including slaves and loyalists. The Founders even had laws requiring people to have guns appropriate for militia service.

The wide range of Founding-era laws suggests that the Founders understood gun rights quite differently from many people today. The right to keep and bear arms was not a libertarian license for anyone to have any kind of ordinary firearm, anywhere they wanted. Nor did the Second Amendment protect a right to revolt against a tyrannical government. The Second Amendment was about ensuring public safety, and nothing in its language was thought to prevent what would be seen today as quite burdensome forms of regulation.   

mikec

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Reply with quote  #2 
your little article is contradictory. states up front that guns were for militia, then it says they're not to protect against the gov't.  hmmm.

also, you writer is quite the mind reader.  he has a direct connection to the Founders.  I wonder if he's ever read the Federalist Papers?

naw, of course not.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #3 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Coming to some conclusions:

Guns don't, by themselves, kill people.....people with guns kill people.  bad people - ie - criminals.  Just last week, two teens were involved in a shootout at a club in Gwinnett, with one dying.  People with no respect for life - start there.

Limiting access to guns may not be the answer, but controlling people with an abnormal obsession with guns might  who decides what is "normal"?  what is "control"?  you gonna pick some arbitrary number?  allowed one weapon for each sort of varmint, or do you have to double some up?

It is not psychologically normal to love weapons, people that do are a risk to society.  no proof of that whatsoever.  You don't know that the LV shooter "loved guns".  You think that because he owned many.  Maybe he bought them all for specifically this purpose?

The conservative element here leads me to believe there may be no way to reach them with logic and reason. Their childish answers and ability to ignore the obvious makes them a threat to society.  good thing the libs here are so level headed.  I'd hate to be called a racist or something

I've never been around many people like this and hope they are not representative of where we are going as a society.  probably many people that live around you think like this, it just doesn't come out in everyday conversation.  airing of opinions is sort of the point here.

The quantities and type of weapons owned should trigger our law enforcement to a potential Threat from an individual.  machine guns are registered, and ATF has info on every legal purchase made through background checks.  Again - who's going to decide if one guy who likes to shoot his AK on his 50 acres is a threat, and another guy who shoots it at a range isn't?  you can't possible know.

We need stronger monitoring of individuals with guns. The purchase of certain weapons and ammunition or quantities of ammunition should trigger laws to allow search and seizure. wrong, wrong, and more wrong.  I have a doctor friend with lots more money than me.  When the Obama admin was buying all the ammo up, he went to Academy Sports and bought all the ammo they had in each caliber weapon he owned.  In all, he bought around 10,000 rounds.  He has been shooting it since, and likes to brag about how his ammo cost about 1/4th of what mine cost.

Possession of altered and unnecessary assault type weaponry should be a felony and lead to incarceration.  already is.  if you modify to auto operation, you must register it as a machine gun with ATF.

You nuts are right.....guns aren't the problem. The people with the guns are and need to be dealt with. NOW.  Nuts.  Way to Win Friends and Influence People.



Fresh

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikec
your little article is contradictory. states up front that guns were for militia, then it says they're not to protect against the gov't.  hmmm.

also, you writer is quite the mind reader.  he has a direct connection to the Founders.  I wonder if he's ever read the Federalist Papers?

naw, of course not.


It also mentions the needs of 1791 being different from 2017. You are picking parts out of context. Militias were integral in opposing British rule. Once a government was established, the need for a militia to secure the borders was less important. The militia became a local safeguard. Protection from civil disobedience, not federal intervention.
mikec

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In case you're interested, BTW, we have a couple of these threads here.  Back when Will I Wyn posted as Dewey, he was quite active on them.
bluedog

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Reply with quote  #6 
Whack quoted..........
Quote:
The wide range of Founding-era laws suggests that the Founders understood gun rights quite differently from many people today. 


And..........
Quote:
The Founders had broad bans on gun possession by people deemed untrustworthy, including slaves and loyalists.


So, does Whack believe gun-control and slavery should be the law-of-the-land I wonder?

I don't want my Government deeming me to be anything - trustworthy or untrustworthy.............Just don't deem me, at all, and if I want a gun, I'll get one..........


Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


It also mentions the needs of 1791 being different from 2017. You are picking parts out of context. Militias were integral in opposing British rule. Once a government was established, the need for a militia to secure the borders was less important. The militia became a local safeguard. Protection from civil disobedience, not federal intervention.






You going back to quill & ink for your first amendment?

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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


Fresh

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Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog
Whack quoted..........


And..........


So, does Whack believe gun-control and slavery should be the law-of-the-land I wonder?

I don't want my Government deeming me to be anything - trustworthy or untrustworthy.............Just don't deem me, at all, and if I want a gun, I'll get one..........




You are being disingenuous and parsing words. You know better what he's saying. Muddy the waters.

Just don't deem me, at all, and if I want a gun, I'll get one. And I'm unpatriotic. 
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost_1






You going back to quill & ink for your first amendment?


Yes. To infer the intent of the original amendment, you must get to the prevailing mindset and technology of the day. None of us will ever know what restrictions Jefferson would have wanted on assault rifles. They were not even conceived. With one attack helicopter and ammo in the hands of the British, our national anthem would be Hail to the Queen.
mikec

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh

With one attack helicopter and ammo in the hands of the British, our national anthem would be Hail to the Queen.


Naw, cause we would've had better stuff.
woody

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Reply with quote  #11 
That strategically placed comma in the 2nd amendment is worth 5 pages of debate. The framers of the constitution new exactly what it took to overthrow, a tyrannical government, and they safeguarded the right to bear arms for future generations explicitly for that reason.
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uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh


Yes. To infer the intent of the original amendment, you must get to the prevailing mindset and technology of the day. None of us will ever know what restrictions Jefferson would have wanted on assault rifles. They were not even conceived. With one attack helicopter and ammo in the hands of the British, our national anthem would be Hail to the Queen.

Crank automatic weapons existed at that time.  While not as efficient as the gatlin gun, it was clear where it was going. The founders knew of them and chose not to limit them.

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Can always tell when fresh is drunk and tired. Gets low energy and says 'sh1t' a lot,
woody

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Bill Smith probably still want's some hand grenades, and I'm still waiting for my Howitzer.
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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

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Will_I_Wynn

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will_I_Wynn
"Passing laws against murder, passing laws against abortion, or passing laws banning certain types of weapons will not eliminate murders, abortions, or shootings."


Has there ever been a more unnecessary reminder than the one above?

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End of FY 2001, which was Pres Clinton last year, debt was $5.8T.
See next link.

End of FY 2009, which is last year applicable to Pres Bush, debt was $11.9T or more than doubled.
See here - https://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

Eight years under Obama deficits total about $7T.
See here - https://www.usgovernmentspending.com/federal_deficit

Understand debt goes up higher than total deficits.
Explained here - https://www.forbes.com/sites/stancollender/2014/11/04/there-is-no-budget-conspiracy-why-federal-debt-increases-by-more-than-the-deficit/



uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
"Passing laws against murder, passing laws against abortion, or passing laws banning certain types of weapons will not eliminate murders, abortions, or shootings."


Has there ever been a more unnecessary reminder than the one above?


Classic Dewey.  Copy and paste your own quote and f' up the quote chain while doing it.  FTFY

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Can always tell when fresh is drunk and tired. Gets low energy and says 'sh1t' a lot,
mikec

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https://crimeresearch.org/2017/04/number-murders-county-54-us-counties-2014-zero-murders-69-1-murder/
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #17 

Goes with my point that suburban non-inner city, and rural America is way safer than almost all other countries. 



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Can always tell when fresh is drunk and tired. Gets low energy and says 'sh1t' a lot,
uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #18 
[JcItSqk] 
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Can always tell when fresh is drunk and tired. Gets low energy and says 'sh1t' a lot,
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #19 
What does an assault rifle do better than a shotgun for personal safety? Good for zombie apocalypse? Anybody use a machine gun to hunt? 
woody

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Reply with quote  #20 
A high capacity shotgun is the ultimate close quarter self defense weapon in the home Mr. Biden. However I often travel, and I usually carry a high capacity pistol, and an AR-15 with me in the truck. I use a high capacity Ar-15 to shoot hogs. What do you use for self defense Mr. Biden? What does your security detail carry to protect you? What do the police carry in their cars for self defense and service? Most cops in my area have a pistol on their hip, and a high capacity pump shotgun and an AR-15 in their vehicle.
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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

"IT'S GOOD TO BE DA KING"
Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
What does an assault rifle do better than a shotgun for personal safety? Good for zombie apocalypse? Anybody use a machine gun to hunt? 



Define "assault rifle"?

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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


bluedog

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Reply with quote  #22 
They'd define it as a .22 that you'd assault a squirrel with..........
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #23 
Those are those guns that look mean and scary, and they are black. I know I saw one on CNN
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#SCOTUS
Fresh

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Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost_1



Define "assault rifle"?


Not a gun officianado. The type of weapon carried by swat teams and the military. The type that can carry a large clip and be used for killing multiple targets. As opposed to a bolt action hunting rifle or hand gun.
woody

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Reply with quote  #25 
Assault rifles are full auto, and select fire weapons with large capacity magazines. AR-15s are semi auto weapons. The average citizen cannot possess an assault weapon. Most firearms are banned in France. How did assault rifles get into the hands of terrorist that massacred Parisians if they were illegal?
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Anarcho Capitalism. Get some, and no you can't have any of my money to live off of you Socialist Democrat.

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Fresh

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Reply with quote  #26 
Illegal sh1t happens all the time. The frequency decreases with prison time.
Lost_1

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Reply with quote  #27 
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__________________
If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


uwApoligist

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Reply with quote  #28 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Illegal sh1t happens all the time. The frequency decreases with prison time.

Does not answer the question.  Why remove guns from legal gun owners, when that terrorist action in France proves beyond any doubt, that terrorists will still likely be able to get automatic weapons and commit mass killings? 

Why not just do actions that address the terrorists and their access to weapons? 

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Can always tell when fresh is drunk and tired. Gets low energy and says 'sh1t' a lot,
PDad

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Reply with quote  #29 
Sounds like Chicago where they have strict gun laws on the books and don't enforce them on criminals.
TheNarrator

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Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fresh
Illegal sh1t happens all the time. The frequency decreases with prison time.


So you are for heavy mandatory minimums for illegally possessing a gun (Plaxico Burress)?

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