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Original_Coach

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Reply with quote  #1 
Anybody care about the USA Cup? Canadian Open? And or the ISF World Champioship Games Coming up this Summer?
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Coach
all4AU

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Reply with quote  #2 
Yes!

Here are some important dates for the US National Team!

June 23, 2012
Title IX 40th Anniversary Celebration Game
Women’s National Team vs. Canada
Oklahoma City - $7 ticket (General Admission)
Tickets: 800-654-8337 or SoftballOutlet.com



June 27-July 2, 2012
World Cup of Softball VII
Oklahoma City
Tickets: 800-654-8337 or SoftballOutlet.com


July 4-9, 2012
Canadian Open FastPitch Championship
Surrey, B.C., Canada
Tickets: 604-536-9287 or CanadianOpenFastPitch.com

July 13-22, 2012
ISF Women’s World Championship
Whitehorse, Yukon, Canada
Tickets: WorldFastPitch2012.com
Cape Town, South Africa

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TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #3 
Just turned the TV on, guess what another international game US v's PUERTO RICO
another awesome game played in front of an overcrowded stadium.
ProudDad

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Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHammer
Just turned the TV on, guess what another international game US v's PUERTO RICO
another awesome game played in front of an overcrowded stadium.


Why don't you change your handle to asshat!

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LMUfan

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Reply with quote  #5 
Pat,

While I understand your sentiment, he does have a point with regard to fan support.  Either the marketing department is sleeping or nobody really cares about international softball.
mindajane

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Reply with quote  #6 
Saddly I think with softball not being in the Olympics and the vast majority of the big names gone the numbers will probably continue to fall. It's sad for these girls to play in front of small crowds because theyare incredible people and athletes! 
ProudDad

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMUfan
Pat,

While I understand your sentiment, he does have a point with regard to fan support.  Either the marketing department is sleeping or nobody really cares about international softball.


Chuck, You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Which do you think he is?  Hammer is negative because of what happened to his daughter in past tryouts. It has nothing to do with anything happening today. He takes every opportunity to knock todays players and the national team. He is a real piece of work.

I can see the stands as well as anybody. Why focus on that? Anybody that was in tryouts and/or on the National Team prior to 2009 know what's missing. This year they are playing while all of our other athletes get to prepare and play in the Olympics. Something these girls don't get to do through no fault of their own. You think it hurts a little more for those who would have been going to Great Britain and now are the first National Team players that aren't allowed to compete in an Olympics since 1996? Kind of know what the 1980 atheltes felt like when they were not allowed to go to Russia.

They don't receive near the money or support that they had in the past. One thing it shows is that these girls are not there for the money, they are there to play for their country. That merits a little more respect in my view. When you attend a game do you focus on the play, the players or the crowd. Any game.

The name on the front is a lot more important than the name on the back. Herb Brooks.



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JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #8 
Patrick - I'm with you.  When I watched my son play baseball in Little League and High School, I didn't look negatively at the quality of play nor the size of the crowd.  I was too busy cheering for the "good guys" and wishing them well. Those who represent our nation deserve no less than our positive perspective and admiration of their efforts.  Those who proudly represent other nations also deserve respect for their involvement, whatever their level of play.  That does not make one a Pollyanna who does not notice the minus elements of a contest (like a small crowd or a lopsided contest of talents), but rather defines a perspective on the whole of the contest.  All that does not take away from our ability to judge effort and technique and to enjoy a well played game, even to have favorite players or to admire particular plays. It's a great game played by great players at the highest level.  Enjoy and respect and hope for a return of Fastpitch to Olympic status !!!  Go USA !!!  Go Fastpitch !!!    Frank
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #9 
" It is not the critic who counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.  The credit belongs to the man (woman) who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly, who errs and comes up short again and again because there is no effort without error and shortcomings, who knows the great devotions, who spends himself in a worthwhile cause, who at the best knows in the end the high achievement of triumph and who at worst, if he fails while daring greatly knows his place shall never be with those timid and cold souls who know neither victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt, 26th U.S. President   

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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
LMUfan

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Reply with quote  #10 
Frank and Pat,

I, like many fans, watch sports if there's an emotional attachment to the game.  Watching a game for the pure beauty of the sport is understandable but rare.

I only watch NBA if the Lakers are involved.  I only watch baseball if UCLA is involved.  (I stopped watching the CWS once they were knocked out.)  The only sport I'll watch almost any game in is college football.  Watching a game where there's neutral interest makes any sport less compelling.  I think many, maybe the majority of TV sports watchers are the same.  If they can't cheer for one team or against another team they probably will only watch games where someone else is around watching them.

So, that brings us to softball.  Softball doesn't have the momentum for the average fan to watch just to see the sport.  It takes some emotion or drama.  The WCWS had both.  Teams you could root for and an outcome that was never certain.  It drew big crowds because people supported their school, not necessarily because they went there to see softball.

This week that brings it into focus even more.  While, mentally, I can understand supporting those that represent your country and their hard work, emotionally I find it hard to do.  There's really no drama, at least in these early games, we all know what the outcome will be.  Without Japan the championship is an almost certainty. 

In the 60s and 70s when UCLA dominated basketball people tuned in hoping the underdog would win and knock off UCLA.  With softball we don't even have that.  Nobody tunes in with the hopes that USA will get knocked off.  That would be unpatriotic.

So, you might ask, why do I watch these games?  I really don't watch them.  I record them.  Then I fast forward to see Sam Fisher at bat.  At that point I go into regular speed motion until her at bat is done, then fast forward again.  I watch to see if the score changes and then rewind to see what caused the change.  I don't find the games compelling or particularly fun to watch.

I'm not knocking anyone, but I'm just pointing out what an average fan who doesn't have a grudge against the USA team thinks.  If I were asked, my thinking would be closer to Sam's than yours.  Sorry, would it have been better had I said nothing?
mindajane

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Reply with quote  #11 
I'm not try to disrespect these ladies at all and I have watched bits of all the games. There are some incredible athletes from all over the world there and I have enjoyed watching them play. My point wasn't to in anyway take away from them. But I'm sorry it does make me sad and I do notice when I watch a game and notice how low the attendance is. Because sports and their success are very connected to fan support like it or not. If international softball can't find some way to get more support it will likely fade away. It's already happening. I watched the games of the World Cup in 2010 on the same program they are using this year and the chat room was booming(that's actually how I found this site). This year there might be 5 comments in an entire game. I want these girls to be able and future girls to be able to represent their country in this great sport but without better fan support that very well may not happen. My point wasn't to disrespect these girls or anybody but to simply say something is going to have to change if international softball is to continue.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #12 
Charlie - No, not at all.  We each have a perspective that is viable for us, and we might even go so far as to attempt to persuade others that it should be viable for them.  You couldn't pay me with money or threaten me with a gun  to watch an NBA basketball game.  I would rather watch the professional women play.  Whereas I used to be a big baseball fan when I played baseball (until I was 32). I rarely watch baseball now.  I admit to being a big fan of fastpitch softball, having been a pitcher at the elite level and having run softball schools for females for 25 years in New Jersey.  Today I follow my Dukies in basketball, anyone in softball with a magnified following of U. South Florida especially (it's 30 minutes from my house and my good friend coaches them, as he does the USA Team), and almost any collegiate football game though I have always favored Notre Dame (I played collegiately and coached the game at the high school level) as I am involved there analytically (still count the players at kickoff). Like you, I have a personal reason for each of my preferences.  In the USA Fastpitch games, I watch a team representing my USA.  I feel a certain vicarious pride in team and country when I watch them perform.  Sam the Hammer has his own perspective, and it comes out of what he feels to be an unfair selection method.  I understand that and feel bad that he feels that way.  You have explained your perspective without rancor and owe no other explanation to anyone.   Frank 
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #13 
Mindajane - In no way, shape, or form could anyone ever accuse you of denigrating the fastpitch game or the ladies who play it.  You have much too much positive "money in the bank" from your posts to ever be doubted in terms of your perspective.   Frank
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #14 
people USA/AUSTRALIA is on.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMUfan

Sorry, would it have been better had I said nothing?


LMUFan - Let me take the opposite stance of JG and answer...yes.  With all due respect, and I seriously mean that, I don't understand the need to make the point unless it happens to be the particular subject of conversation.  To be fair, you didn't, Hammer did.  Needless to say, you're free to give your softball opinions as this is a softball forum, but that's not my point.  Let me put it this way as I'll bet you've experienced similar.  I have many guy friends that have laughed at my interest in women's fastpitch throughout the years.  They understand the daughter thing but often question why I continued after my kids were done.  These same guys don't hesitate to scoff at women's sports as if they are a complete joke.  Most had sons playing sports.  I understand they have an opinion but I didn't really want to hear it, being a fan of women's fastpitch.  Didn't you ever have a similar feeling when your friends belittled women's sports?  I know you have no disrespect for women's sports but, if you agree with Hammer, then you support an ongoing willingness to repeatedly emphasize a point these players, families, and close fans of softball really don't want to hear.  It's definitely everyone's right to have an opinion but I don't get the need, or the gain, in expressing it in this particular case, or so often.    
TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #16 
Dewey, PLEASE RUN FOR AN OFFICE.
you are an awesome friend. love all the things you say.
by the way had a question.
does ESPN pay to televise these softball games or do they get paid.?????
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #17 
Hammer - Are you being facetious?  I might invite you to our next party but, once you see the number of guests,  I'm afraid you will think we have too few friends.
TheHammer

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Reply with quote  #18 
Dewey, i consider you as ONE of my best friends.
as they said " May you live long and prosper "
LMUfan

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Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMUfan

Sorry, would it have been better had I said nothing?


LMUFan - Let me take the opposite stance of JG and answer...yes.  With all due respect, and I seriously mean that, I don't understand the need to make the point unless it happens to be the particular subject of conversation.  To be fair, you didn't, Hammer did.  Needless to say, you're free to give your softball opinions as this is a softball forum, but that's not my point.  Let me put it this way as I'll bet you've experienced similar.  I have many guy friends that have laughed at my interest in women's fastpitch throughout the years.  They understand the daughter thing but often question why I continued after my kids were done.  These same guys don't hesitate to scoff at women's sports as if they are a complete joke.  Most had sons playing sports.  I understand they have an opinion but I didn't really want to hear it, being a fan of women's fastpitch.  Didn't you ever have a similar feeling when your friends belittled women's sports?  I know you have no disrespect for women's sports but, if you agree with Hammer, then you support an ongoing willingness to repeatedly emphasize a point these players, families, and close fans of softball really don't want to hear.  It's definitely everyone's right to have an opinion but I don't get the need, or the gain, in expressing it in this particular case, or so often.    


Wow.  It's clear you and I travel in completely different circles.

First, let me say that I've never had one of my friends question women's sports nor my affiliation with them.  Never.  What kind of friends are those? 

Second, this is a thread about INTERNATIONAL softball and you try to generalize it to a validation of women's sports.  Why did you take that left turn?

I've always stated that there's simply no interest in international softball around the world.  The rest of the world doesn't care, why should we?  Even prior USA team members, such as Jessica Mendoza who could have easily made the team, has grown tired of it and moved on.

The original post asked "Anybody care about the USA Cup? Canadian Open? And or the ISF World Champioship Games Coming up this Summer?"  

I simply answered the question in a direct and honest way.  Should I have not?  You're the moderator so what you say goes, I guess.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #20 
LMUFan - I think it's great nobody ever looked down at girls sports in your circles.  Unfortunately, I cannot say the same.  I've been around many a folk who didn't give girls the athletic credit they deserve.  Maybe I'm older and thirty years ago things were a bit different.  In any event, I was simply trying to make a point that pointing out the negatives, international ball or whatever, can be tiresome and unwelcome, particularly to those closely involved and fully invested.  I tried to give you an analogy, not to convince you to feel differently, or to confront you personally, but to explain why some might react unhappily to those who continuously emphasize the negative.  Hammer doesn't miss many opportunities and I understand those that are frustrated by the constant reminders. 

PS:  What did moderator have to do with anything?
PS II:  The only posts I'm reacting to are the ones you directed to Frank and Pat.  If you have a post directed at Original Coach, I didn't read it.
ProudDad

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Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMUfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMUfan

Sorry, would it have been better had I said nothing?


LMUFan - Let me take the opposite stance of JG and answer...yes.  With all due respect, and I seriously mean that, I don't understand the need to make the point unless it happens to be the particular subject of conversation.  To be fair, you didn't, Hammer did.  Needless to say, you're free to give your softball opinions as this is a softball forum, but that's not my point.  Let me put it this way as I'll bet you've experienced similar.  I have many guy friends that have laughed at my interest in women's fastpitch throughout the years.  They understand the daughter thing but often question why I continued after my kids were done.  These same guys don't hesitate to scoff at women's sports as if they are a complete joke.  Most had sons playing sports.  I understand they have an opinion but I didn't really want to hear it, being a fan of women's fastpitch.  Didn't you ever have a similar feeling when your friends belittled women's sports?  I know you have no disrespect for women's sports but, if you agree with Hammer, then you support an ongoing willingness to repeatedly emphasize a point these players, families, and close fans of softball really don't want to hear.  It's definitely everyone's right to have an opinion but I don't get the need, or the gain, in expressing it in this particular case, or so often.    


Wow.  It's clear you and I travel in completely different circles.

First, let me say that I've never had one of my friends question women's sports nor my affiliation with them.  Never.  What kind of friends are those? 

Second, this is a thread about INTERNATIONAL softball and you try to generalize it to a validation of women's sports.  Why did you take that left turn?

I've always stated that there's simply no interest in international softball around the world.  The rest of the world doesn't care, why should we? 

Really? Then why do so many countries have a team. Why are there leagues in Italy, The Netherlands, Japan and Holland? Why are there teams in Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Canada, Austrailia, Great Britain, China and Japan? Are they not around the world. No interest seems to be an overstatement. Something you do regularly. Just because it's your view does not make it others.


Even prior USA team members, such as Jessica Mendoza who could have easily made the team, has grown tired of it and moved on.

Really? She moved on because they were no longer being paid the way they were, because softball was no longer an Olympic sport and to try and develop the NPF. She did play on the team for around 10 years. You think she would have stayed so long if softball was not an Olympic sport?

The original post asked "Anybody care about the USA Cup? Canadian Open? And or the ISF World Champioship Games Coming up this Summer?"  

I simply answered the question in a direct and honest way.  Should I have not?  You're the moderator so what you say goes, I guess.


No of course not Chuck. Should you answer your wife "yes" if the question was do these jeans make me look fat? Perhaps you would, those with good manners would choose their response more carefully. The answer might be yes but the smart husband would say you look great wearing anything you put on.

Yes the marketing for USA and International softball could be a lot better. Jenny Finch tried to bring in sponsers that were rejected. The ISF and USA softall do not get along with one another. That hurts softball. Crowds might be smaller but that means less interest and not zero or no interest. You know like the crowds at LMU are smaller than the crowds at Arizona, Alabama or ASU. Is there no interest in LMU softball? Why do you attend?

Get it?

Not surprising Dewey gets it.

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Go Team USA!
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #22 

OK, if I am following this conversation properly, here's what I have gathered.

If my wife asks,

"Sweetie, how do these jeans look? Do they make my..."

I should respond with,

"No, no, no. You look great in everything you've tried on but that pleated skirt I asked you to try flares just right and you look dynamite in it."

Am I on the right track here?



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Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
ProudDad

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Reply with quote  #23 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSmith

OK, if I am following this conversation properly, here's what I have gathered.

If my wife asks,

"Sweetie, how do these jeans look? Do they make my..."

I should respond with,

"No, no, no. You look great in everything you've tried on but that pleated skirt I asked you to try flares just right and you look dynamite in it."

Am I on the right track here?


Hey Bill just go straight to the sofa and play cards with Chuck.

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Go Team USA!
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #24 
I just watched the USA Team win a scoreboard win over Australia 3-1. I am really interested in what others saw and their remarks about the game in general and specific.  Anybody ?????    Frank
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"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #25 

PDaddy,

Nayh. He'd spend the whole night showing me how he has wireless control over every media device in his house.

I'd rather watch softball.

Congrats to USA with a win over the Aussies.


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Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #26 

Frank,

I was wondering why the 7th inning pitching change? Righty-righty match up for Thomas?

That sure went by the situational strategy scenario as a walk brought up a lefty. Who proceeded to look like a 1970s choke `n poke hitter in a three-pitch strikeout.


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Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
JoiseyGuy

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Reply with quote  #27 
Bill - Coach Eriksen is big on lefty-lefty and righty-righty matchups when he feels that he has the talent to do so.  Simply put, Thomas screwed the whole philosophy up by striking out the wrong player.  Frank
__________________
"Freethinkers are those who are willing to use their minds without prejudice and without fearing to understand things that clash with their own customs, privileges, or beliefs. This state of mind is not common, but it is essential for right thinking. Where it is absent discussion is apt to become worse than useless." Leo Tolstoy

"Do not try to teach pigs to sing. It will frustrate you and infuriate the pigs who will unite in anger against you, and you will never achieve singing your song". Dr. Petersen
BillSmith

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Reply with quote  #28 
Ain't that always the way, Frank. Darn players fouling up the genius coaching moves.
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Sometimes you are the mole, sometimes the mushroom.
ProudDad

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Reply with quote  #29 
Frank - here is what I saw:

  • poor fielding - letting ground balls play you instead of playing the ground ball
  • not covering first on a bunt
  • not in position for the cut off throw
  • over throw from the outfield to first but great back up by the catcher
  • batters continuing to pull balls foul down the left field line and not making adjustments
  • too many hitters on the team to bat pitchers - in particular lefty vs lefty
  • pitchers letting poor fielding affect them
  • need to settle on a lineup-one with Fischer in it
  • great talent on the team
  • this team needs to play more games before competition begins in tournaments - set up some games with the npf would be good

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Go Team USA!
Original_Coach

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Reply with quote  #30 
Reading this thread simply makes me sad!

I have invested a great deal of my life in International Softball.

We only have control of what we have control of.

Softball is NOT strong enough as a game globally to be an Olympic Sport!

We should analyze what went wrong from 1996 until 2008.

Everything we had control of should be analyzed.

Leaders and Associations should be scrutinized and held accountable.

Time to move forward and see what we can do to build and develop the game globally.

The focus should not be on USA Softball.

The game of Softball is not American. The game has no nationality!

The development needs to start and focus in Europe.

I will keep working to get the Olympic Dream Back.

I simply hurt for all the women around the world who no longer have the Olympic Dream.

I will have a strong feeling of melancholy later this summer in Whitehorse!

But I will be truly happy to see Softball being played by International Teams.

We need stronger leadership and direction!

Go SOFTBALL!






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