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BamaHoHo

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Reply with quote  #61 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
The standard lib argument to that is $50+ is nonsense. They can't tell you why or how $15 is magic other than that's what they say is right.


There is no magic number. If you raise it to $15, everything go up therefore the cost of living goes up. Then $15 is not a living wage and we have to up again & again. It will become a never ending process from their argument.
ForeverInBlue

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Reply with quote  #62 
But see folks, if you raise it the government gets more money. And that's the real point. More income tax, more sales tax, more more more money for Big and Bigger Government.
PDad

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Reply with quote  #63 
People making minimum wage pay minimal, if any, income taxes and are generally eligible for government assistance. The net effect on the government of increasing the MW above the poverty level would be a net decrease since the increase in tax revenue (mainly SS/Medicare) would be more than offset by the decrease in assistance benefits.

The assistance programs that make it possible for people to live on MW jobs (e.g. Walmart workers) is a form of crony capitalism. I support reducing that by raising the $7.25 Fed MW (e.g. to $9 via $.50-75 increases and then reassess/index).
keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #64 

UC Berkeley Forced to Cut 500 Jobs After $15 Minimum Wage Hike
Apr. 18, 2016
The $15 minimum wage hike in California has sent financially troubled UC Berkeley into decision making mode, and "the people who clean buildings, who work in food services or health clinics,” says Todd Stenhouse, will be the ones without a job.

Stenhouse, a spokesman for the American Federation of StateChancellor, also said “There’s a very clear need for those front-line services. But the question is whether there really is a need to hemorrhage resources on executives.”

Nicholas Dirks sent a memo to employees Monday informing them of the job reductions and said they will amount to “a modest reduction of 6 percent of our staff workforce.”

Berkeley employs about 8,500 staffers, from custodians to administrators. Departments on campus were reportedly also told to reduce their budgets by 10 percent in whatever way they wish.

Some staff members in at least one area, residential student services, were told by managers two weeks ago that they should prepare to be laid off.

This may be the sad but true reality that many working people all across California will face in the coming future due to the recent decision to raise the state-wide minimum wage.

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #65 
Funny you don't see the high paid liberal administration staff stepping up and taking a pay cut to help support the entry level workers they claim to champion for.
Standard Dem policies. Do as I say not as I do.

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#SCOTUS

TylerDurden

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Reply with quote  #66 
No, they want you to pay for them to go to college to obtain one of the millions of unclaimed jobs.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #67 
Who pays for our kids to go to K-12?  If we think times now call for K-14, can't we pay for it the same way?  Don't spread misinformation that everyone wants "you" to pay for society's wants and needs.  That's such an old right wing talking point.
pabar61

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Posts: 11,469
Reply with quote  #68 
People - don't get sucked into this hole.  Let's get back to the topic.  Minimum wage laws continue to be proven to be bad for the people that they're intended to help.  UC Berkeley is just the latest example.
PDad

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Posts: 4,062
Reply with quote  #69 
Berkeley had already raised their minimum wage much higher than the new statewide MW for the next few years and is under pressure to match San Francisco's scheduled MW increases to $13 in July and $15 in 2018. 
http://www.berkeleyside.com/2016/04/21/berkeleyans-to-be-asked-to-accelerate-15-minimum-wage/

The statewide increase is having a bigger impact in other places.

- Los Angeles previously passed their own $15 plan, which triggered some mfg companies to plan moving outside the city. They're now looking to leave CA after the statewide plan.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-garment-manufacturing-la-20160416-story.html

- Inland cities like Bakersfield and Fresno are still trying to cope with 2 large MW increases over the last 18-24 months.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/29/business/economy/15-hour-minimum-wage-in-california-plan-has-some-worried.html?_r=0

Craig Scharton, the owner of a farm-to-table restaurant called Peeve’s Public House in downtown Fresno, said he was still smarting from a recent increase in the minimum wage from $9 to $10 an hour. He said the increase had forced him to close on Mondays and Tuesdays and played a role in reducing his staffing to a dozen today from 18 two and a half years ago.

Mr. Scharton was at a loss to explain how he would absorb the new increase. “We’re trying our best to revitalize downtown,” he said. “This just kind of kicks our legs out from under us.”

Dewey

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Reply with quote  #70 
A cop, an athlete, a teacher, an auto worker, and a fireman can have a minimum starting wage that is good for them but if we give one to the "average" Jane or Joe worker, it's somehow bad for them.  Don't look now but I see more of the "income inequality" crowd turning to Democrats and Donald Trump.  Hard to believe the Right keeps trying to sell this theory.
Lost_1

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Posts: 2,911
Reply with quote  #71 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
A cop, an athlete, a teacher, an auto worker, and a fireman can have a minimum starting wage that is good for them but if we give one to the "average" Jane or Joe worker, it's somehow bad for them.  Don't look now but I see more of the "income inequality" crowd turning to Democrats and Donald Trump.  Hard to believe the Right keeps trying to sell this theory.




You might want to look at the starting salary of a first year teacher, and this is a person with a 4 year college degree. A 1st year teacher in San Diego makes $38,347, a burger flipper at McDonalds @ $15 per hour has an annual salary of $31,200.


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If we are not careful, our colleges will produce a group of close-minded, unscientific, illogical propagandists, consumed with immoral acts. - Dr. Martin Luther King


“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.” Winston S. Churchill


keepinitreal

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Reply with quote  #72 
Don't confuse dewy with facts Lost
__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
TylerDurden

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Posts: 3,869
Reply with quote  #73 
Lost, if you are going to start fact checking Dewey's posts, you will soon be drawn down into his fact-averse rabbit hole.  There were too many things to comment on his ridiculous post, it's best just to let the guy have his rant and hope he feels better afterwards.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #74 
Lost - That's fine.  But I would still say lowering a San Diego teacher's starting wage to $11,000 wouldn't be good for the teachers.  I wouldn't try to sell them on how good a lower wage will be when it comes to keeping their job long term.

Edit - Btw, did you dispute a fact of mine?  I thought I gave mostly opinions.
Dewey

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Reply with quote  #75 
Readers are smart enough to know when someones says, "we can't raise the minimum wage because it will ultimately be bad for you", they should turn and walk away.

Edit:  OK, I responded to PDad but his post quickly disappeared.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #76 
Nobody said there shouldn't be a minimum wage so once again your premise is on shaky ground. Cops, Fireman, Teachers are not entry level jobs that require no training like a fast food worker or a janitor. Comparing the positions is nonsense. 
Don't even know how to respond to the athlete.

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PDad

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Reply with quote  #77 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
A cop, an athlete, a teacher, an auto worker, and a fireman can have a minimum starting wage that is good for them but if we give one to the "average" Jane or Joe worker, it's somehow bad for them.

The readers are collectively shaking their heads at Dewey's attempt to deflect and distract with a lame equivalence to jobs that require education and training. 

IMO, CA's plan is asinine because it treats a huge state with widely varying economic areas from rural to urban like it is monolithic and commits itself to too large of an increase while it is still adjusting to the last couple of increases.
TylerDurden

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Reply with quote  #78 
The worst part of the whole post was wondering why people were rushing to the candidates that want to give them the most.  There are folks that will always take a hand-out over a hand-up, and there will always be people pandering to them, even if it is not what is best for our economy.
PDad

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Posts: 4,062
Reply with quote  #79 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Readers are smart enough to know when someones says, "we can't raise the minimum wage because it will ultimately be bad for you", they should turn and walk away.

Readers are wise enough to know more isn't always better and to be very wary of anyone that suggests so. They also find Dewey's dishonest mischaracterizations appalling.
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #80 
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
Nobody said there shouldn't be a minimum wage so once again your premise is on shaky ground.


Please make your position clear for spazsdad and me if you believe in a minimum wage.  Thanks.
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #81 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerDurden
There are folks that will always take a hand-out over a hand-up, and there will always be people pandering to them, even if it is not what is best for our economy.


And there will always be folks who negatively characterize a hand up as a hand-out.  I repeat, this Democrat doesn't want to give anyone welfare who simply refuses to work.  I want to help those in need.  Keep spinning otherwise if you think it's necessary.
spazsdad

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Reply with quote  #82 
"I repeat, this Democrat doesn't want to give anyone welfare who simply refuses to work"
Yet you support a party full of people that do just that. Curious

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Dewey

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Reply with quote  #83 
spazsdad - I don't believe that is true.  It's just a never-ending talking point from the Right. 
PDad

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Posts: 4,062
Reply with quote  #84 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
Quote:
Originally Posted by spazsdad
Nobody said there shouldn't be a minimum wage so once again your premise is on shaky ground. 

Please make your position clear for spazsdad and me if you believe in a minimum wage.  Thanks.

I already did 6 days ago (post #63). IIRC, other people have indicated their position on MW in this thread as well.
pabar61

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Posts: 11,469
Reply with quote  #85 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
A cop, an athlete, a teacher, an auto worker, and a fireman can have a minimum starting wage that is good for them but if we give one to the "average" Jane or Joe worker, it's somehow bad for them.  Don't look now but I see more of the "income inequality" crowd turning to Democrats and Donald Trump.  Hard to believe the Right keeps trying to sell this theory.


Every single profession you mentioned is protected by a union so minimum wage is moot.  In addition, every one of those professions requires specialized skills or training.  The comparison to a Burger King employee is asinine.

Why would the "income inequality" crowd ever turn to Democrats when income inequality has increased under Obama?
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #86 
pabar - Just because a Democrat is elected President, doesn't mean income inequality disappears.  It didn't disappear under Bush either.  It will take investment in education, minimum wage increases, infrastructure investment, ending corporate welfare, and many other steps to address this complex issue.

OK, spazsdad, PDad, and I all believe in a minimum wage.  Who else?
TylerDurden

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Posts: 3,869
Reply with quote  #87 
It's all the republicans fault pabar!  Here comes an analogy about a doctor and being sick or some nonsense like that.
pabar61

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Posts: 11,469
Reply with quote  #88 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dewey
pabar - Just because a Democrat is elected President, doesn't mean income inequality disappears.  It didn't disappear under Bush either.  It will take investment in education, minimum wage increases, infrastructure investment, ending corporate welfare, and many other steps to address this complex issue.

OK, spazsdad, PDad, and I all believe in a minimum wage.  Who else?


Not only did income inequality not disappear - it INCREASED under Obama.  INCREASED.  After eight years in office, the first two of which he had complete control of Congress, he was incapable of addressing income inequality.

Do you know why?  Because every idea that Democrats have about reducing income inequality doesn't work.  Investment - what a BS term.  I thought we had invested trillions in the war on poverty, hadn't we?

If it takes all that investment and Obama was in office for two years and Democrats controlled Congress for two years and Obama never met an executive order he didn't like, why did he fail to keep income inequality from INCREASING while he was in office?

How much investment is required when the national debt has grown from $12 trillion to $19 trillion during Obama's tenure?
keepinitreal

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Posts: 25,233
Reply with quote  #89 
The thread is titled $15 an hour minimum wage.  

Only 1 socialist, the same contrarian as all other times, has shown support for a $15 an hour wage for non-skilled, bottom of the ladder, lack of education, lack of motivation workers.  Anyone else?

One should read all posts on a thread [mine was post #3], before hijacking it and directing questions to the readers

__________________
"I like to establish the parameters of my own thoughts and don't think I need a director."

"This is not debate class. And this is not about politeness. We're talking about the damn future of our country"

"It is not just simply yelling out a name and yelling down dissenters........................... and I'll defend your right to even insult me" 
Dewey

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Posts: 24,423
Reply with quote  #90 
I believe in a minimum wage.  Most $15/hr minimum wage proposals get there over time.  I think I can support most of those but I would be open to those who aimed at a different number.  Before we can negotiate a number, we need to agree there should be a minimum wage.   
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